Curse

Qing Guang · Oct 02, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Yeah I don't know much at all about PvP and builds and stuff, but um...

I stopped reading after the Frenzy war. Yeah. Even I can tell that's just dumb. I probably could have just tossed my Rit's RA build in and it would have been better than that... at least the AI can interpret mine.

And here I thought the whole thing was about creativity and considering the AI's limited strengths. I really oughta dial down the optimism.

EDIT: Actually, I'm really facepalming over NOT entering a build. I thought it'd be best if a PvE never-ever-PvPs-beyond-Arenas-and-AB person didn't enter a contest pertaining to higher PvP she knew nothing about, but as these seem to have been pulled out of a hat and no one is ever going to use most of these I might as well have tried.

Reflect · Oct 02, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Heroes + those build = epic phail
wiki build winning = epic phail
so if we add those 2 up
Anet = epic phail ...

elk · Oct 02, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

What about future meta skill changes where skills fall out of play? Anet will often take what's currently in use (which several bars currently mirror) and tweak them out of play while buffing others into play. Do they intend to maintenance these bars regularly or will it be left such that the AI can't play the bar correctly to begin with and then the skills on the bar aren't worth taking anyway? Or does this mean that these particular bars/skills will remain untouched in future balances (or that meta changes will also have to consider these bars before release)?

anywho, regardless of how it all pans out, congrats to those who won.

elk

zelgadissan · Oct 02, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Let's face it - I'm pissed that essentially wiki builds won as well, but if they had actually followed the rules that they had initially set out, this thread would be just as many pages long with people bitching about how they ran a contest, took away manhours that could have gone to better content and/or PvP updates, and then made new henchmen with just as pointless skill bars as the ones we already have.

Anet can't win whatever they do. However, they could have at least stuck with what they initially said in the first place so maybe we'd actually believe in what they're telling us.

snaek · Oct 02, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by winterclaw

Unless anet plans on redoing the henchies everytime the meta changes one skill update will kill a number of the henchmen.

you mean like the distortion bar that was submitted before the september skill balance, and then the september skill balance specifically targetted to nerf this bar, yet they still decided to pick this bar as a winner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by regina buenaobra

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

please do not waste time fixing the ai to run these builds effectively. there are better ways to spend your time than trying to make henchies play human bars just as good as humans. it really is a lost cause--it will be a bigger mistake than the mistake already made of picking these bars imo. i'd rather let these henchie bars stay as a joke than let them be viable to be used in pvp.

tealspikes · Oct 02, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

lol @ people who still think anet picked these bars for their effectiveness. They arent that stupid. The entire point of this move was to kill heroes - this contest is nothing but a diversion.

If this was their intention, why did they spend weeks being 'ridiculously busy' choosing from tens of thousands of entries? No, I don't believe ANet are clever enough to deliberately pick bars the AI can't run so that nobody will use them. I believe they chose them because they don't have a clue.

I can imagine the Live Team sitting around a table for hours discussing the merits of each build that would only apply if they were run by humans. They probably didn't spend a minute considering how AI would cope with them.

Oh, and most of the bars look like they were copied straight from PvXwiki; so much for the 'originality' demanded in the rules.

Why would anet have spent so much time and just end up with meta builds. Considering the limited resources given they probably skimmed through the first 500 or so and took the builds most recognizable to pvp players. If they did seriously review every single submission, I highly doubt they would have come up with wikitbuilds. Heck, the the entire reason for this contest was the removal AI from PvP why would anet even want to spend time finding workable builds. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Regina Buenaobra · Oct 02, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

FoxBat · Oct 02, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

ONLY possible silver lining to this cloud - I noticed they chose 4 builds for elementalists. You'd think like with warriors getting one per mastery, they would have one for each element; but instead they doubled up water in GvG and fire in HA. It's possible that this was done so the have the room to go back later and re-do the bars to represent all four elements. If THAT's the case, they might be planning to put up actually useful bars later (or keep tweaking the fail choices until they become useful). They are swamped with work now, so they just dartboard some winners and move on to their other tasks, with the hope of revisiting this in a few months.

I don't even care if some clueless nubs win the prize for zero effort, just give us some not completely retarded henchmen in the end.

Scythe O F Glory · Oct 02, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Just don't mess up on the cancel stances (if you even do that). We don't want them using Frenzy, then immediately canceling it with the sligthest damage. Then again, I don't know why I would take a henchie war in the first place...

I Angra I · Oct 02, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Won't that take months of coding/testing/etc? There's some incredibly significant flaws in the AI that I can't imagine taking just a few days to change.

Lex · Oct 02, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

Then again, I don't know why I would take a henchie war in the first place...

There is worse thing. Think of them as replacement if someone got err7 on the HA run... and?

Frenzy? PR? No.

From that point of view I would want my "Charge!" back

Oh, and btw:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

.. who (most of them) used "original" builds from pvxwiki? How about first rule of the contests about "originality"? Isnt it broken? I think we all need some explanations.

Quote:

Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source. Your submission must not infringe on any patent, copyright, trademark or other intellectual property right, or any privacy, publicity or publishing rights of any third party, or be libelous, obscene or otherwise contrary to law.

hitsuji182 · Oct 02, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

It's not the main issue. Everybody complains of your previous statement about originality etc. and about contest rules, which were broken. :/ Someone could work on build a few days and the person didn't win, but someone else who just copied skillbar from pvx won and will get prizes. I'm sure there were, just a few, creative and working builds, but no, better choose boring meta and dissapoint people.

Killed u man · Oct 02, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Really?!

...

This is ALL you have to say?

I just went from kinda dissappointed and rather furious to simply amazed.

It's like you just opened the first thread with "contest" in it, and said: congratz to the winners, instead of actually reading said thread.

But yeah, AI is the main concern regarding this issue.

NOT how:

-> All the skill bars are directly ripped off wiki (Against rules)
-> None of them were original with the exception of few ("low" chance of winning)
-> Most of them are in meta right now (Against rules)
-> Most of them, and I mean all of them, will have MAJOR AI flaws
-> It wasn't specificly stated special AI would be created, and thus "smart" people would avoid skills such as Coward, Frenzy, and Prage
-> Some skill bars simply are bad

But yeah, those are obviously all minor things, just like GvG, HA. You can easily ignore those...

ousbique · Oct 02, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitsuji182

It's not the main issue.

Well i think it is, i don't care about the contest & prizes, the real objective is the end of "PvPvE" situation with :
1/ AI abusing
2/ Teambuilds and Individual IA builds that leads to a very consistant & strong party with only 4 or 6 humans in.
3/ Boring pvp situation (it's not funny to face, win or loose against bots)

But Anet people don't see the main issue, and selected problematics templates such as LC necro, Vor Mesmers or Soul bind (come on only curses necro). I'm pretty sure the current hex-hero pressure in HA can be tweaked a little to introduce thoses henchies... here we go again...

This half-solution will not satisfy everybody.

GMJStrongbad · Oct 02, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Grats to what? peoples ability to copy/paste wiki? Some people worked for a long time creating their original builds, testing them, planning them, and you guys go and give it to some people who just took 5 seconds out of their day to copy the builds off wiki?You guys BROKE YOUR OWN RULES FOR THE CONTEST, seriously, did you even take any time or effort into this contest at all?

Very disappointed in Anet

Shadowspawn X · Oct 02, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Why have a contest if all the winning builds are well known wiki's?

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 02, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Ok, we can rule out that AI can be fixed for them.
Their builds won't be total wastes and will run properly.

But that still doesn't explain originality rule...

Um, you here Regina? *Checks viewing list*
Nope...

Hellscream The Evil · Oct 02, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

...utopia...

(p.s. my koss uses frenzy without any weapon equipped, i cant believe that a hench will run near the relic runner and will use "ward against enemies", moreover, how about 40/40? and tattics? bah)

Nihal · Oct 02, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellscream The Evil

...utopia...

(p.s. my koss uses frenzy without any weapon equipped, i cant believe that a hench will run near the relic runner and will use "ward against enemies", moreover, how about 40/40? and tattics? bah)

and what about make haste?XD i can't imagine that a npc use it well.. baaaaah

Draikin · Oct 02, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

So you're removing the format that needed those AI updates the most, and afterwards improve the AI for PVP formats where people don't want henches/heroes to see play. That doesn't make any sense to me.